Wednesday Jun 28, 2023

#009 The Blundered Bulgarian Bounty

This Week on Another Brother:

In episode #009, The Blundered Bulgarian Bounty, find out what music really moves the brothers. Spoiler, Alex keeps it real with Jimmy Eat World. Classic. And what's that, is Josh crying? No you're crying!! Actually, all the brothers are crying! We told you the music was moving. As far as Jacob... we'll let him do his own thing. BUT he's got a real doozy of a Paranormal Hour, so prepare yourself for what he has unearthed.

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Episode Links (***Spoiler Alert***):

 

Transcript:

The following transcript was created using the OpenAI Whisper API:

[00:00:00] This Week on Another Brother

[00:00:38] Another Brother Theme Song

[00:00:59] Stewnerds Segment

Alex: okay we're gonna-

Jacob: i don't know how to-

Alex: we're gonna we're gonna count down and then we're all gonna say the name of our favorite song or a really good option for what a favorite song because this is a really stupid hard question to answer what is your favorite song.

Josh: the best song in my life?

Jacob: we can clarify why we chose it as our favorite song.

Alex: true true. okay.

All: three two one sacvkajdflwkefho.

Alex: okay I couldn't hear anything. I just heard me.

Josh: I think Jacob said "blogalivle".

Jacob: that was close actually.

Alex: did you say Scotsdale?

Josh: something like that.

Alex: okay so who's gonna start with what there's-

Jacob: well the oldest is the usual order.

Josh: yeah what did you actually say?

Alex: I said Middle. Jimmy Eat World.

All: ohhhhhh.

Middle, by Jimmy Eat World

Jacob: do everything you can.

Alex: yeah I mean good message that some people really need to hear. sounds like it was probably a heartfelt message to somebody.

Jacob: oh no, alex has like good and happy reasons for liking his song. mine's gonna be terrible.

Alex: well it was it was the first time that I fell in love with music that I didn't play in band so like a more pop type of music that you would just listen to

Jacob: yeah

Alex: it's the first time like I listened to Metallica before this and-

Jacob: I actually thought you were gonna pick a Metallica song.

Alex: yeah I know I know as much as I do love Metallica looking back on when I first started listening to Metallica which is what I thought about when like trying to pick a favorite song that came from a darker part of my life a darker memory and not because it was Metallica because as I said I still love Metallica but the people that it's associated with the people that got me into Metallica it's kind of abusive and not not not always really fun memories but Jimmy Eat World comes from a newer group of friends that were like-

Josh: would you say a better group of friends?

Alex: yeah did I not? what what did I say?

Josh: you just said a newer. I was just wondering.

Alex: okay yeah no a better group of friends that were like the core of my youth the the best part of so much of my youth were these friends and Jimmy Eat World is kind of at the at the heart of that memory.

Josh: would you say it's in the middle of that memory?

Alex: yeah yeah I would say that Josh.

Josh: yesss!

Alex: it's in the middle.

Josh: nailed it!

Jacob: boooooo.

Alex: but like whenever I go back to Jimmy Eat World it used to be like the only band I listened to and then Anberlin got added to that mix. I don't really listen to them a whole lot anymore but when I do I'm always just surprised by how much their lyrics just connect with me like I just get what that band talks about. what seems to be important to them. important enough to put into music anyway.

Josh: they're like down-to-earth for our style of person I guess.

Jacob: they they were I my music taste was built initially off of what you guys listened to and they were a formative band for me too, I think for all of us?

Josh: yeah I love Jimmy

Jacob: and every time I go back like for some reason I do forget about them. every time I go back it's just like, oh this makes me happy! how do I forget you guys?

Alex: yeah it's it's just it's happy music.

Jacob: yeah! it is!

Alex: which I can't say the same of for Anberlin all the time, like the-

Josh: Anberlin hits heavy.

Alex: it does it's yeah it's heavy and-

Josh: yeah, really heavy topics.

Alex: and that can be really great. they're amazing musicians. they okay I've made this comparison before but if if Jimmy Eat World is like easy listening, Anberlin is more art is how is how I kind of look at the difference between those two bands. not that those are absolute terms concrete terms to describe them but to get a relative idea of how I feel about those two bands that's kind of more like yeah how I place them.

Josh: yeah that's that's fair but also Jimmy Eat World has a lot of heavy topics too-

Alex: that is true.

Jacob: yeah.

Josh: -but the music just feels lighter. they handle it a little bit more with levity.

Alex: they have more of a punk rock route to begin with

Jacob: rather than alt

Alex: their first album was more punk rock. I think it was straight up punk rock and then they kind of changed their their tune a little bit for that Bleed America or Bleed American, I can never remember.

Jacob: it's so good.

Alex: such a great album like geeze louise. there's some really good songs in the album before that, clarity, but Bleed American is just-

Josh: remember their song "Lucky Denver Mint"?

Alex: oh yeah are you kidding me?

Jacob: yep.

Josh: have you seen the music video?

Jacob: oh see, that is just a happy tune.

Josh: the music video is these guys in like like the tight cotton basketball shorts and like sports jerseys and sweatbands and they're playing ultimate frisbee. they're playing frisbee. it has no connection to the lyrics at all but it's just the best, like-

Alex: that's how you make art out of your music video, you can't make it connect with the music. but I just remembered like Jacob I think you made like a video of some kind and used an Anberlin song in it or or used, not sorry, Jimmy Eat World, ah something about angels. "let angels bring you in"

Josh: oh. that's what I'm saying that was one of the heavy topic songs I was thinking of.

Alex: that's true, yeah.

Josh: you made a music video?

Alex: I don't know if it was a music video-

Jacob: yeah, what was that?

Alex: -but it was something related to your mission something related to Russia or-

Josh: "Here I leave my friends. On sleepless nights the sleepless go, may angels lead you in."

Alex: -or someone you knew in Russia maybe a missionary or I'm not sure. great song. so many great songs!

Jacob: that is that is one of those deep ones.

Alex: yeah it is I don't I honestly don't remember any details about it.

Jacob: I can't I mean you're right I just don't remember what it was.

Alex: I mean I could talk about J.E.W. for ages.

Josh: that is such a good song.

Alex: and they're still going like still making music.

Josh: yeah, they're on tour right now I think.

Alex: I think they are yeah. great concert they put on a great concert.

Josh: okay so my garbled song is "Scots Wha Hae".

Alex: oh my gosh, great choice!

Jacob: oh no, should I-

Alex: I never would have thought outside of rock and roll!

Josh: I know hence the theming to our entire podcast.

Jacob: oh is it a Scottish song?

Josh: it's so it's written by Robert Burns, the lyrics, so it's a poem.

Jacob: ah, no way, dang it, why-

Josh: Written by Robert Burns in like 1790 something, but uh-

Alex: you gotta play it.

Jacob: yeah. I don't know this song.

Josh: well okay I'll say this so this is, so specifically, so I love the poem obviously, but the band that I love their rendition, the traditional Scottish arrangement they picked, is Scocha. SCOCHA.

Alex: it sounds like I may need to-

Josh: it's named after the two founding guys. last names Scott and Chapman. so SCO-CHA, Scocha.

Jacob: I like that.

Josh: this this is the this is the best version:

Scots Wha Hae by Robert Burns, arranged and performed by Scocha:
Scots, wha hae wi' Wallace bled,
Scots, wham Bruce has aften led;
Welcome to your gory bed,
Or to victory!

Now's the day, and now's the hour;
See the front o' battle lour;
See approach proud Edward's power—
Chains and slavery!

Wha will be a traitor knave?
Wha can fill a coward's grave!
Wha sae base as be a slave?
Let him turn and flee!

Wha for Scotland's king and law
Freedom's sword will strongly draw,
Freeman stand, or freeman fa',
Let him follow me!

By oppression's woes and pains!
By your sons in servile chains!
We will drain our dearest veins,
But they shall be free!

Lay the proud usurpers low!
Tyrants fall in every foe!
Liberty's in every blow!—
Let us do or die!

Josh: This one's heavy.

Alex: That's a good one. That's a good version of the song.

Josh: It's the best one. There's like some punk rock arrangements of it that just don't get the feel of it quite right. Yeah, it's just a great song. Yeah, so it was like written as a Robert The Bruce speech. So it's written from the perspective of the Bruce to the Scottish troops before, like as they're marching to the Battle of Bannockburn.

Jacob: Yeah.

Josh: It's just great. Yeah.

Alex: So good. It's so good. There's a really good version of it in the Spotify Scottish folk music playlist. That I listened to that playlist a lot.

Josh: Like the pipe and drums?

Alex: It's not too dissimilar from that version as far as instrumentation goes. They do the vocal harmony a little differently. The guy that breaks from the melody, his harmony is higher, a lot higher pitch than what they do here. But I like this one too.

Josh: Yeah. I like this harmony. Anyway, so it's like obviously, so it's Robert The Bruce addressing his troops before marching to Bannockburn to fight against the British, Prince Edward. And it's just like meant to be his rallying speech. And it's based on some truth of what he actually said too. So there's some historicity to the lyrics from Robert Burns. And he obviously, like, you know, he's like, you guys fought with Sir William Wallace. You bled with him. You've fought under me before. Like, here's kind of our final stand, which if I remember right, the Battle of Bannockburn was one of the last huge battles of the War for Independence. Like middle to late 1300s in Scotland. But yeah, it's a powerful song for me. That was one of the songs that plus like the Clan slogan of "courage grows stronger at the wound". Those two things were just really powerful, really powerful, in some of my experiences. And yeah, it hits different when you're able to observe oppressed peoples just willingly, you know, sacrifice everything to defend their own people. So yeah. Plus the, you know, trying to get back to some Scottish roots and trying to understand some of the pain felt and endured through, you know, historical generations in the past and stuff. I think it's important. And yeah. So, when we decided we were going to do Favorite Songs, that's the only song that ever comes to my mind. I'd have to like really think to get anything to jump off the top rope and body slam that one away--to make a WWE reference.

Jacob: you'll have to, yeah, send that song to me and I'm going to need to look up the lyrics.

Josh: so good.

Jacob: and just read the poem, not the lyrics, but look up the poem and just read the poem text itself as I listen to it.

Alex: What I find really cool about this, it's called a setting when someone takes a poem and puts it to music. There are a lot of poems out there that have been set to music by a number of different composers that are obviously completely different songs, even though they share the same lyrics because it's the poem. What I find really cool about this setting, which I think is the only setting of Scots Wha Hae, could be wrong. I don't really know, but it's the only one I've ever heard. But what I find really cool about it is a lot of people, when they feel like they are in power, they try to downplay their enemies by calling them brutes and savages, which is something that was done to the Celts and the Scottish by the British and Romans too.

Josh: Yeah. Barbarians.

Jacob: They're dehumanized. It's easier if they're not humans.

Alex: And so you hear a poem like that, that's about going off to battle, and you'd expect different music than that. But the way that this song has a rolling cadence that just brings on like this quiet fortitude, like we're doing this, we're doing it for the right reasons.

Josh: Clear mind.

Alex: Yeah. Clear mind.

Josh: Clear willpower.

Jacob: I mean, this was the first time I've heard it. And the one thing that stood out to me was, I mean, it feels like a hymn, like a liturgical hymn where they understand the reverence.

Josh: Well, we know...

Jacob: Geez, we're all babies.

Josh: I know.

Alex: Thanks a lot, mom and dad!

Jacob: Yeah. The reverence of, "they", Robert Burns understands the reverence and the composers, the reverence of that subject matter and of what those men did willingly, like Josh was saying, it was a sacrifice, but yeah.

Josh: Well, we know what the final chapter was and how that all ended as did Robert Burns when he wrote it.

Alex: True.

Josh: But after he wrote that, it actually kind of became a sort of unofficial national anthem for Scotland for a number of years, which leads me to believe as an entire people, they all understood, or at least the folksy part understands the impact and the importance of it. So anyway, great song. If you want a more upbeat version, The Real McKenzie's. And or just don't be born a Stewart and you probably won't get morose and somber like us. So anyway.

Jacob: No for you to cry over it.

Josh: You're not going to cry over The Real McKenzie's version. I'll tell you that. It's just, yeah, they protect you. All right, Jacob, you're up.

Jacob: Okay. Ah, geez. Dang it, Josh.

Josh: I know.

Jacob: Following that, this just feels almost...

Alex: You could have gone first.

Jacob: I know. I made the mistake. That was my bad.

Josh: I was about to say something, but I didn't want to like tip my hand.

Alex: "Are you sure you want to go after me?"

Josh: I've been thinking about this song all day and I'm like, I know it's going to be heavy.

Jacob: Yeah, it almost feels irreverent going after Josh, but...

Josh: It always does!

Jacob: The song I picked is Loved You A Little.

Alex: By?

Jacob: By The Maine featuring Taking Back Sunday and Charlotte Sands.

Josh: Oh, you just shared this with us.

Jacob: I did actually.

Josh: A couple of weeks ago.

Loved You A Little, by The Maine, featuring Taking Back Sunday and Charlotte Sands

Josh: Yeah, that's a killer song.

Alex: Yeah, that sounds like something that you'd be into. I mean that sounded really-

Jacob: Yeah, no no no. Yeah, that's true. It's true.

Alex: It sounded like your sound. That's all I'm saying.

Jacob: So, I mean, first off, maybe I should say, I rarely listened to The Maine. They'd pop up on Pandora for me every once in a while, but they weren't...

Josh: M-A-I-N-E, right?

Jacob: Yeah. M-A-I-N-E.

Alex: Like the state.

Jacob: Yeah, that's what you said. Yeah, so I knew about The Maine, but they certainly never were a go-to band for me. Taking Back Sunday, that's different. I listened to a lot of Taking Back Sunday through high school. And I don't even know... Charlotte Sands, was that her name? I haven't heard of her before. So this just popped up recently as a suggested song for me in YouTube Music. So YouTube Music is getting to know me really well. So, yeah, picking a favorite song is so dang hard. So this is like, in this snapshot of time, like right now, this is kind of the song that I'm frequently going back to. Like if I'm just... I listen to music while I work. And when I'm going through some songs every once in a while, I'll just go back and hit this one again. I'm probably a little different. I like messages in the lyrics of songs and stuff. But when I listen to music, it's mostly the music that sticks out to me.

Alex: Yeah, no, me too. It takes me ages to learn lyrics.

Jacob: Yeah, so it's the beat and it's the... I don't even know how to describe that. The...

Alex: The color. It just has a color, right?

Jacob: And in the way that they sing it, in the vocal performance almost, I suppose, and the rhythm of the vocals as well.

Josh: It's like dramatized music.

Jacob: Yeah, so I am the emo listener in the family. Liz has followed me some as well, but I'm not like this, I'm not a poor tortured soul where it's like emo music just speaks to me. I mean, sometimes it does, the lyrics that is, but the music speaks to me. I just...

Josh: Yeah, it's emotional. It's emotive.

Jacob: And it gets...

Alex: I have theories about that, but go on.

Jacob: It gets me moving. It gets me pumping. I want to listen to either alt rock or like emo while I'm like running and doing stuff like that. It's just got the energy for me.

Josh: If it's Matt Cutshall doing it, I'll watch that all day long. Because Emo Is Not Dead! But I agree. And like, yeah, like My Chemical Romance, Helena. Black Parade.

Alex: Black Parade.

Josh: I'm like, I don't really get what you're saying, but these music videos and the music is pretty happening. And this song's awesome.

Alex: I think a lot of people could say this about their favorite style or genre of music, but I think it's particularly true of rock and roll. And one of the reasons why we gravitate towards rock and roll so frequently and have so much over the course of our lives is because I think rock and roll more than any other genre of music... Oh boy, here we go. More than any other genre of music.-

Josh: Oh! I wasn't expecting this.

Alex: Well, you know, once you start making like ultimate statements like that, people are going to be like, oh, what did you say?!

Josh: Wait a minute!

Alex: I think more than any other genre of music...

Josh: Defund the podcast. Defund the podcast!

Alex: It helps you to let go of emotion.

Jacob: Catharsis.

Alex: Because one of the hardest things about learning to be a human being and an adult human being is how to regulate your emotions and just let things go. Just let an emotion go. Like if there's no way to work out the emotion, you just have to let it go. And rock and roll, that is a music that's going to help you do that.

Alex: Yeah, I was going to say emo. Emo as well. Emo and rock.

Alex: Well, I kind of...

Jacob: Yeah, it's a branch of subgenre.

Josh: Yeah. So especially in like the younger years, like the middle school, high school...

Jacob: Angsty years.

Josh: Anxiety addled years. Like I have to prove myself years. Yeah, it kind of took... It helped to convert the unuseful emotions into useful energy and useful actions and useful behaviors.

Jacob: Yeah.

Josh: That's what it's always done for me.

Jacob: I mean, I can admit I do have a few like very specific memories. Going back again to specifically emo music and the way that they can emote so well in the vocal performance itself, the emotion they pull into the actual singing. You know, I've turned on specific songs at times intentionally just to get a good cry out when I've just...

Alex: Yeah, release that emotion. It's good. It's so good. Like...

Josh: Secondhand Serenade.

Alex: How can you teach a kid the importance of that? You can't. I don't know how you use words to teach a kid the importance of that, but you give them the right music.

Josh: I'm not saying you guys are wrong, but this is where we diverge. I will do anything I can-

Jacob: To not cry?

Josh: -to not have to cry.

Jacob: Oh, Josh will bottle it up-

Josh: It happens a bunch, but I don't watch rom-coms. I will sometimes, but I just...

Jacob: Oh, well, I'm talking like-

Josh: it's dangerous for me.

Alex: So, usually the emotions I'm trying... I can regulate those kinds of emotions more easily, but when I'm angry about something, I have a hard time just letting that kind of emotion go. When I feel like I've been wronged or whatever, and that's when I turn to rock and roll. Not to get a good cry on, but like there are so many emotions that I can release through just listening to rock and roll.

Jacob: And so, what I was referring to is when there are very genuinely troubling, difficult, worrisome times that you're going through, sometimes just those... I mean I don't want to call them negative emotions, but the emotions that you hold on to at those times just make it that much harder to get through the problem, to seek solutions. So, if you can just get it... I mean, so that's what I'm saying where I guess you said, turning that...

Josh: Yeah, into useful-

Jacob: Yeah, use... I don't want to call it useless emotions, but turning it into something positive and an energy that you can actually work and build off of. That's where I've had to use it there a couple of times.

Josh: So, it's kind of like when I have food poisoning and I know it's going to be a rough night and I just... I'm like, well, let's get it over with. And I just force myself to get it all up immediately and then I have a good night.

Alex: Yes.

Josh: And if I don't do that, it's miserable.

Alex: Exactly.

Jacob: Sure... One other note about that specific song, Loved You Little. I love rock ballads. There are not enough where you have the perfect harmonies between male and female vocals. When they nail it, like to me, that song nails it. And it's just like, it's a whole nother thing. I've got a couple other songs, A Day To Remember, you guys probably don't know them, it's a band. Silverstein.

Josh: I know, Silverstein yeah.

Alex: I've heard of them.

Jacob: They've each got another one where it's just... There are these heavy emo songs that man, boy, do they pick me up and make me happy. Just because the harmonies are so good.

Josh: Yeah, the male-female duet.

Jacob: Yes.

Alex: Like, Let Angels Lead You In.

Jacob: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: Oh, yeah.

Alex: Jimmy Eat World song.

Jacob: Yeah, good call.

[00:25:21] Stewnerds!

[00:25:29] Paranormal Hour Segment

Soundbyte: Dude, did you turn on the radio? No. What are those lights flickering? Para... Normal... Hour.

Jacob: Okay, so this is a story that comes to us from Bulgaria. Yeah, I doubt many people have heard of this. It happened at the very end of 1990 to late 1992.

Josh: So, yeah, not real internet going on.

Jacob: No, definitely not.

Josh: Probably not much widespread knowledge of it.

Alex: World News Coverage.

Jacob: Yeah. Especially keep in mind that the Berlin Wall has come down. Right. The Soviet Union is collapsing. So there's just a lot going on. And yeah, Bulgaria's probably not used to publicizing. Well, this was something they were trying to not publicize at that. So there wasn't a lot of press. We only have this thanks to a Bulgarian journalist, Svetko Kanyev. He had kind of-

Josh: Contemporary journalist? Or is this after the fact?

Jacob: Yeah, contemporary. So it was at the time he broke the story as it was happening. He was kind of friends with some big wig in the government. And he'd sometimes just ask him for stories like, Hey, what can I report on?

Josh: I'll give you some cigarettes!

Jacob: And so he ran across him one day as he was in a transition, like getting into a van to go drive off somewhere or something like that. He's like, give me a story. It's like, I've got nothing for you, but go down to Tsarichina and see what's going on there. And so he did. And he broke this whole story. He wrote some big articles. He even at one point was able to take a photographer with him down to this village of Tsarichina. So that's where this is set. Tsarichina, Bulgaria. It's a really small village. Like there might be a dozen homes in this place.

Josh: Yeah. Real village.

Jacob: Yeah. It's like, this is the kind of, it's the size where, you know, Bulgarians don't know about Tsarichina. It's nestled in some rolling mountainous hills, nice and forested. I mean, it's not super far from Sofia.

Josh: Oh, okay.

Jacob: But again, it's just people don't know about this good. So small. So this guy, Dmitar Khikimanov, he lived in Tsarichina. So first of all, his family had this oral tradition that this king, well, Tsar, Tsar Samuel, who was like this great king or tsar in Bulgarian history from like 900 AD, that he had buried a treasure in Tsarichina. And it's this long lost treasure that no one knows about. So he has a dream this one night where four really important Bulgarian historical figures come to him. And they tell him, Dmitar, you have the blood of Tsar Samuel in your veins. And he did leave a treasure-

Alex: It's yours!

Jacob: -and it's up to you to find it. Bulgarian needs this treasure to be found.

Alex: Okay.

Josh: Oh, so you don't even get to keep it.

Alex: It's not for you!

Josh: It's the country's!

Jacob: No, this is like, this is like national significance and import.

Josh: Interesting.

Jacob: Okay. So a couple of weeks before he had this dream, Bulgaria had just founded the Paranormal Research Association.

Josh: How long prior?

Jacob: A couple of weeks. Like two weeks, I think. So this is a brand new association. I think it's part of the Department of Defense.

Josh: Oh, oh, this is like a government body.

Jacob: Oh yeah. Yeah. It's official. Like this is a state run association. Is the word I have.

Alex: Sign me up, I'll work for them.

Jacob: I know, right? So, you know, he has this massive dream, it's family tradition. So he's got these two things lining up. He's like, oh man, there must be something here. This must be real. So he goes to this Paranormal Research Association, of course. Tells him about the oral tradition, tells him about this dream. And they're like, yeah, okay. Okay, let's go check this out. Let's do it.

Josh: "Dude, I just got here. Let me get some coffee."

Alex: Did they tell him where it was in the dream?

Josh: No.

Jacob: Other than in the village? yes.

Alex: Okay.

Jacob: Yeah, but the specific location, no.

Alex: So they say, "okay, let's go get it". What do they do?

Jacob: Right. I'll get there soon.

Josh: "Mount up! Suit up! "

Jacob: So one of these big wigs in this, I'm just going to call an agency, Paranormal Research Agency. One of the big wigs in this agency, his daughter is a psychic. Let me back up. There's another guy who's actually in the agency who's sometimes has psychic moments as well. So that guy, when he heard this story, he's like, oh yeah, yeah, I had that dream too. We don't know if he had a dream of these guys coming to Dimitar, or if he had a dream where the four figures came to him. Either way, there's a second person now who's had a same dream that yes, there's the treasure of Tsar Samuel is in Sarichina.

Josh: And this guy's kicking himself like, "ah, why didn't I tell the boss? I had that weeks ago."

Jacob: So Dimitar, he goes back home. He goes back home to Tsarichina. And this small crew of like six officials-

Josh: All part of this Paranormal- I'm shocked there's more than like two people in this.

Jacob: So I think a couple of them might've been just like normal military guys. Then you had a couple of actual people from this new agency.

Josh: The civilians.

Jacob: And then the one guy's daughter as well, because she's a psychic. They head out to Tsarichina. Again, no one knows where it is. Like they take a wrong turn and this woman, Ellie Luginova, she's the psychic. She's like, "whoa, hold on guys. No, we're going the wrong way. Turn around, get back to that fork and take a right."

Alex: Oh, she's a good psychic.

Jacob: She's a good psychic. And from that moment on, she leads them exactly to Tsarichina. She's never been there. She doesn't know where the village is.

Josh: No internet!

Jacob: No. Yeah. No Google maps.

Alex: No GPS. Well, it's up there, but they don't have access to it.

Josh: Outdated Atlas because the Soviet Union is no longer a thing.

Jacob: And yeah, turn for turn, she gets them.

Alex: No sneaky magic's gonna fool her.

Josh: Oh man.

Jacob: We'll see.

Josh: Okay, hold on. So that right there is kind of crazy, right?

Jacob: Like this is a big story, man.

Josh: When my wife tells me to go to CVS, I'm like, uhhhhh, if I just start driving, I'm not making it.

Alex: Well, that's because you live today. Things were different back then. You had to get around a little bit.

Jacob: So another footnote I wanted to add in here, these like Eastern block countries, from my experience, at least from things I've read online, you know, they're more accepting of like psychics and mysticism, all that kind of stuff than would be here. You know, I mean, the Soviet Union was investing in and testing remote viewers and things like that, you know.

Alex: Remote viewers? Are you talking about like that, Those LSD fueled experiments that Stranger Things are based on?

Josh: Like CIA, Staring at Goats and things.

Jacob: Yeah Stranger Things does remote viewing. CIA started their own program once they found out Soviet Union was.

Alex: That movie with George Clooney about the goats.

Josh: It's a similar program.

Jacob: I don't know what that is.

Josh: Funding came from a different source, a slightly different chain of command, but yeah, pretty much the same.

Alex: Men that Stare at Goats. That's what it's called. The movie.

Josh: You haven't seen it?

Jacob: No I haven't-

Alex: It's about a real thing that we did. The 60s or 70s.

Jacob: All right. So, Laginova, the main psychic on this, she gets them to Tsarichina. The next day they start digging. I don't remember how they determined where to start digging, but they started digging somewhere. They dug like a 50 foot wide trench. Pretty large. They got in there eight feet deep, no signs, no indications of like leading to something, you know, a treasure. So, they go back to Laginova, like, "hey, like, what's up? Are we in the right spot? Should we be expecting something yet?" "Oh no, actually, you guys are in the wrong spot. It's actually a hundred meters over this way." So, they fill that back in and they start digging at this other place. Classic psychic. And they've got this nice, big, brand new excavator that they brought with them.

Alex: Brand new? Good for them.

Josh: Probably from Greece. It's not Yugoslavian for sure. If it's nice.

Alex: Ah-hah! Political history. I get it.

Jacob: So, they start digging and like this thing breaks down. Pretty soon. And so, they asked Laginova about it again and it's funny, like he's not in the story past this point. Like there's no even mention about Demeter.

Josh: They bumped the guy out.

Jacob: Poor Kikimenov.

Josh: It's his freaking treasure, man.

Jacob: So, they ask her like, what's going on? And she says, those above blocked the work of the excavator so that it would not break anything.

Josh: Oh my gosh!

Alex: Yeah, you got to get some archaeologists in there.

Jacob: And then she says, "this is a game of chess. It's a dangerous game of chess that you can checkmate. So, the last move is the most important. This is your move. This is the place and sign of digging and opening. This will be the salvation of great Bulgaria. This will save your country from destruction, from the doom of disintegration, from its crystalline fragility. It will become steel strong."

Josh: She's like floating in the air with her head back and just like-

Alex: glowing eyes.

Jacob: Probably.

Josh: The wind. That Lord of the Rings voice.

Alex: "You shall have a queen!"

Josh: And like she, this is the reporter reporting this? Is he down there with them as this is happening?

Jacob: Yeah, thanks. So, this is Colonel Kanyev. He's one of the guys very involved. He's like, he's in there digging. He's one of the guys seeing this whole thing through. He wrote a book about this whole experience. And so, there's a Bulgarian website with four very large articles summarizing this entire book. So, this is all Google Translate of those articles that I'm getting all this info from. Yeah. So, all the quotes, it's just Google Translate translating this website.

Alex: Okay.

Josh: Sounds legit to me.

Jacob: Yeah, not too bad. So, yeah, we can thank Kanyev for his book as well as a journalist. Oh, wait, no, it's Svetko Kanyev is the colonel, the journalist. Well, it had a different name. Shoot. Anyway, this like takes off really quick. This has been like a day of digging, a single day of digging.

Alex: Right.

Josh: After the trench.

Alex: Well, I mean, when you have a psychic working for you, like what do you expect?

Jacob: And so, the next day they find out, oh, Laginova and this other psychic guy are talking to unseen entities. So, we have these two figures. Yeah. Roro and Kiki. So, they've named themselves. Laginova is speaking with Roro and this other guy is speaking with Kiki.

Josh: According to Google Translate.

Jacob: Well, I mean, I can read Bulgarian script. The names are Roro and Kiki. Yeah. An interesting side note, Kikimora is, have you heard of Kikimora?

Josh: Yeah, Polish creature.

Jacob: Yeah, all of Eastern Europe has Kikimora in their folklore and everything.

Josh: Oh, mythos. It's also in The Witcher. One of the major monsters in The Witcher.

Jacob: It's terrifying looking in The Witcher. That's not what the lore is.

Alex: Well, the Witcher comes from Poland, so.

Jacob: So, yeah, that was just an interesting connection to me, Kiki, Kikimora.

Josh: Okay. Which would lead me to think this is like an evil being.

Jacob: So, Kiki and Roro don't see eye to eye. They're kind of at odds with each other. So, you have these two psychics speaking to these two different entities who are trying to guide this crew on where to go, how to dig, what to expect.

Alex: and each psychic is always talking to the same individual.

Jacob: Yeah. So, pretty quickly, they just decided, all right, we're just going to go with Laginova and Roro.

Josh: She's been the most helpful so far. She's the daughter of the Colonel.

Jacob: Yeah, exactly. That's probably what it was, right?

Josh: Salute and move forward.

Jacob: And the other guy just kind of left and then we don't ever hear from Kiki again.

Josh: Oh, I would love to know what Kiki was saying.

Jacob: Yeah, I know. And I don't have any of that. But so, like, they jump in full bore, enthusiastically following Laginova and Roro. Okay? And at some point, they had kind of, they were speaking with Roro. I mean, it sounds like every day they're speaking with Roro. Regular contact, regular communication. And I also got the impression that sometimes she would just write it down. Laginova would just write it down. And other times she would speak it and other people would write it down as she's speaking.

Josh: Like simultaneous interpretation. Yeah.

Alex: Very prophet-like.

Jacob: So, they got this, some message that made them understand, okay, we're going to be finding a door pretty soon. And I think it wasn't super deep, like maybe 10 meters deep. They should be finding a door.

Josh: That's pretty deep to be digging by hand!

Alex: 10 meters?

Jacob: Okay, 10 meters. Yeah, no, sorry. That's over 30 feet. I mean, they get down there. Yeah. They get deep. But yeah, maybe it was like five meters at this point. And they found some weird things, like a mirror and this triangle of like an unknown material.

Alex: Unknown material?

Jacob: Yeah. And so, they finally find what they think is the door though. And they make this 43-step plan. 43 steps of how they're going to open this door and what they're going to do, like as soon as they get inside. It includes things like spraying a disinfectant, wearing hazmat suits and face masks, installing a degasser, checking for poisonous gas.

Josh: Yeah, so maybe like booby trapped.

Jacob: Getting oxygen down there. Putting a veil over the entrance so things can't come in and out.

Josh: Worried about biological contamination, chemical contamination.

Jacob: Yes, absolutely.

Josh: Kind of like when they're excavating certain parts of the Egyptian pyramids and things, very similar things.

Jacob: And so, they got their plan. They're suited up. They're ready to go. And they try to open it and it doesn't work. And so, they eventually realized like they were supposed to like reflect sun at the exact right time. Sunbeam was going to come down. They're supposed to reflect and hit something in a certain way and that would open the door.

Alex: What? No.

Jacob: So, they missed it.

Alex: No.

Jacob: Chance gone.

Alex: No.

Josh: Wait for the next month.

Alex: No, no! This isn't how the real world works!

Josh: Don't question the Colonel!

Jacob: So, Roro gives them alternate instructions on how to get in.

Josh: Oh, no!

Alex: Oh, so they chose the wrong person. Kiki would have gotten them in.

Jacob: And they start all this other digging, but it includes like new hazards and they have to like dispose of a biological defense plate.

Josh: Expose of?

Jacob: Dispose of.

Josh: I mean, dispose of a biological defense plate?

Alex: What's this door look like?

Jacob: I don't know, man. I don't know. I would love to be able to read the book. Because there are so many details.

Alex: Okay, I'm calling it. I'm calling it right now. Roro's an alien and this is an alien treasure. Go on.

Jacob: Okay. So, they do like they destroy this plate covered in no one knows what kind of bacteria and diseases and stuff.

Alex: I don't even understand what this plate is.

Jacob: I don't know. Man, there's just so much mystery around this.

Josh: It's like three quarter inch steel or something. I'm thinking, think of Bulgaria in the early 90s. They don't, this is not sophisticated equipment.

Jacob: So, they keep finding materials and substances that they cannot explain. And like they sent it off, they shipped it off to scientists and-

Alex: Bulgarian scientists? Just kidding! I'm sure you're great Bulgaria!

Josh: Sorry you guys, you know, it's the time period. That's all we're saying.

Jacob: And like no one knows. They're finding like pink and yellow soils and stuff and soils that become soft when you apply pressure to it. Like just all kinds of weird things. They're finding blocks, intentionally placed blocks and structures like that as they continue digging deeper and deeper.

Alex: I'm not saying it's aliens but...

Jacob: Okay, so.

Josh: How is this not on Ancient Aliens?

Jacob: That's a great question. Roro eventually says, it's not so easy to enter my home. You have to enter the hall first, then the kitchen, and then the living room.

Josh: What the crap? I don't like this.

Alex: I do, this is awesome!

Josh: I mean, it's awesome, but I think this guy is like, he's trying to get out. He's projecting he's like trapped entity and he's trying to get this guy to let him out.

Alex: Astral projection...

Jacob: So, even man, at this point, they're like meters and meters deep and it's a full blown tunnel completely underground. It's not just a straight hole shaft that they've dug down. Yeah, so there are some pictures online you can find. This is a full blown tunnel.

Alex: Okay, the hallway.

Jacob: And again, they've gotten instructions and directions from Roro this whole time about how to get past and dig through different difficult materials, but they finally get to this, let's see, yeah, it's a pretty large stone. 160 centimeters by 50 centimeters by 120 centimeters. Meter and a half by meter and a half by half meter, right? So, three by three by one and a half feet. No, wait, sorry. No, that's like five by five by one and a half feet. That they just, no matter what they did, they could not get through it. So, they finally decided, well, it's time to bring in a pyrotechnician.

Josh: No. Don't blow up Roro's kitchen!

Alex: Roro's going to be so mad.

Jacob: So, Roro said, referring to that stone, you will fight with it like an ant with a bean. Oh, and then that's-

Alex: Roro's clearly been down there too long.

Josh: He's hungry?

Alex: Nothing but ants and beans to watch.

Jacob: That's when they decided to bring in a pyrotechnician and then Roro said, "once you've decided to use gunpowder, use it. I can't tell you how to do it. Call in a specialist. He may not be military, but he'll be smart and a specialist." That's it.

Alex: Could you be a little less enigmatic?

Jacob: I know. Yeah, these messages are, they're just so weird. And again, you know, Google Translate is helping add to the oddness of the messages. But yeah, from that point on, they're basically blowing this tunnel out. And the really surprising thing is like, it is continuously a nicely shaped square tunnel. And even the journalist, when he-

Alex: I'm sorry, just to make sure I understood that. As they blow up more and more and more, it remains square. Is that what you're saying?

Jacob: Yes.

Alex: Weird.

Josh: So, nothing else is blowing out.

Jacob: Yeah. And so, that's what like, every time Roro talks about where they're going, he always mentions like, it's a specific path. Like, there's this one way you're supposed to be going.

Josh: Okay, I'm sorry-

Jacob: So, almost like this tunnel was put in place in this specific material that will be easily, more easily removed.

Josh: But yeah, so it was filled in. If the top of this tunnel is intact and is stronger than TNT, I'm assuming they're using TNT and they're throwing a cigarette on it. They're blowing it- they toss it-

Alex: So Soviet.

Jacob: You're terrible.

Josh: But I'm assuming, but the ceiling stays intact to create this completely square. That means it was filled in on the way out. Someone was backfilling this thing. That's insane.

Jacob: So, like from here on out is where it gets, it stays largely the same as what I've described, right? They're excavating, getting instruction from Roro. They come to impasses, they have to do different things. But, you know, all this while they've slowly learned new things. They've consulted other psychics, one of which is Baba Vanga.

Alex: Cool name.

Jacob: Yes. Baba means, you know, grandmother. Her name is Vangelina. So, Baba Vanga was like a world known psychic when she was alive.

Alex: Well, with a name like that, how could you not be?

Jacob: Some report-

Josh: "I'm Baba Vanga. I don't know... I'm Baba Vanga!"

Jacob: Some report that she had an 80% accuracy rate on her predictions. So, Laginova is the one who reached out to Baba Vanga.

Josh: Why?

Alex: Wait, who did? I'm sorry, who did?

Jacob: Laginova. Like the lady who's been the main psychic.

Josh: Roro's mouthpiece.

Jacob: Uh-huh. So, here's what Baba Vanga said. That "when they reach a tunnel length of 100 meters, steps will be revealed two by two. And from there, we will enter a room where we will find the first person. But what kind of person? This is not a person. It's a monkey. Yellow, hairy, and withered, she says. This line astounds me." Oh, sorry. So, this is actually the colonel's words. Baba Vanga's words. "The question is, have you found a human head? Someone replied, not yet. Then she asks, have you found the obelisk? And the reply is, yes, we're finding obelisks. And then Baba Vanga says, are you finding symbols? To which someone else replies, yes, geometric symbols, triangles, circles, and crosses. Then Baba Vanga says, this is a big secret. Who will unravel the secret? You will reach a capsule. The content canned." That's good Google Translate. "You do not know if the capsule is pressurized. What are you going to do with that monkey?"

Alex: Oh, yeah, and there was a monkey! What are you going to do with that monkey?

Josh: You guys got to think ahead! Plan a little bit here!

Jacob: "Neither man nor woman. If the airtight lid is open, the creature can be revived from the air. What are you going to do, I ask, when it wakes up and speaks?"

Josh: I, what?

Jacob: That's Baba Vanga for you.

Alex: My mind is-

Josh: "I Baba Vanga! I, uh, just tell you whatever I say!"

Alex: She's not Italian. "Baba Vanga, Baba Vanga!"

Jacob: So by this point, they do know Roro is an alien.

Alex: I got it!

Jacob: And Roro has been communicating to them biologically.

Josh: He lied to Demeter!

Jacob: Yeah, so-

Josh: He could project? like-

Jacob: Did he project those, that dream to Demeter?

Josh: But okay, okay, wait-

Alex: This sounds a lot like a choose your own adventure story that I've read. Not kidding. Go on, Josh.

Josh: I, um, multiple obelisks. Apparently, thanks for that one, Colonel. They've been finding this all along and now we're just hearing about it. What's up with that? And then, um, okay, various symbols-

Alex: "This is a big secret."

Josh: And they, so it's like a cryptography/cryptology-type problem. And, uh, presumably the obelisks aren't being blown to bits as they're-

Jacob: Yeah, presumably.

Josh: -made out of the same material that the walls and floor and ceiling are.

Jacob: So meanwhile, all this time, Laginova is also being, I'm going to use the term, downloaded. This insane script, some language, like linguists have supposedly looked at it. It has no relation to any earthly language that is known.

Josh: She wrote it down?

Jacob: She wrote it down.

Josh: She wrote an alphabet?

Jacob: And supposedly linguists have also determined, however, that it is indeed a language. It is showing expected types of patterns. And-

Alex: Did they find any punctuation? Because it always bothers me when alien languages-

Jacob: Cambodian, Thai, for the most part, they don't have punctuation.

Alex: Oh, I didn't know that. So there are some of our languages that don't either.

Josh: Traditional Chinese don't use punctuation.

Alex: Well, clearly they're aliens.

Josh: Classical Chinese.

Alex: Oh, really? Oh yeah.

Josh: Oh my gosh. It sounds like a problem for AI!

Alex: Ahhh... Baba Vanga! We need to make an AI and call it Baba Vanga!

Jacob: I would love that.

Josh: Noted.

Jacob: Okay. But like the things, the communications with these aliens, like just keeps getting crazier. All right.

Alex: I believe it.

Jacob: Let's see, like at one point, Laginova asks, "who are you? Who am I speaking with?" This had been a while in. The response is, "the higher mind speaks." So this is a new entity that we don't know yet. "Today, I will speak to you. In the meantime, Roro has been replaced as your guide by Sorrel."

Josh: What the crap?!

Jacob: "And now for business." They're very matter of factly in the way that they communicate.

Josh: Okay, logical, they've been trapped for who knows, millennia.

Jacob: "You have two options. To continue straight to the front entrance of the pyramid temple."

Josh: What the! She's like, "oh, OK."

Jacob: But it will be very difficult for you or to change direction to the right, where it will be easier for you.

Josh: Where does that one go??

Jacob: I don't know, but they chose the right. So this wasn't the first instance where they've actually been presented a couple of options where they could choose for themselves.

Josh: They're playing with them, yo!

Alex: Like I said, choose your own adventure.

Jacob: And so that's another thing that Colonel Kaniyia pointed out a couple of times. A lot of the crap they say is just never came to fruition, was completely pointless. Just fluff.

Josh: Like the head?

Jacob: That was Baba Vanga. That wasn't the aliens.

Alex: Baba Vanga being a psychic, not Baba Vanga getting a download.

Jacob: Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, Baba Vanga hadn't been communicating directly with. It's all Luganova.

Josh: Oh, so they chose that... name?

Jacob: But the aliens have still, they have impressed upon them that there is something that they will find of immense significance.

Josh: Yeah, a block of cheese!

Alex: Yeah, the world's greatest cheese!

Josh: It's a rat race and they're just testing us. "Are we going to go the hard way or easy way?" "I'm going to go the easy way."

Alex: "Oh, noted."

Josh: "Okay, interesting. Okay, humans like easy things." "I swear there's going to be something at the end. Just keep going."

Jacob: They start kind of poking fun and joking with them.

Josh: The aliens?

Jacob: Yeah, so like Sorrel at one point, Sorrel says, "so now time is flying fast and you're getting used to being underground life, and you don't want our contact anymore, but you are moving quickly towards the goal. There's only one direction. There is no dividing stones. There are no two directions. It is one and it walks its marked path. There can be no mistake. This is it."

Alex: Hahah! Sorrel, what a jokester.

Jacob: I'm sure you're getting used to underground life now!

Josh: He's been practicing that one for a while. He's like, "I can't wait until they're down here that I can tell them that they're getting used to it."

Alex: "I finally got to use that line!" So this is why we don't get downloads.

Jacob: This higher mind entity, it would only speak with them on the first day of each month. And it's like at one point, like they had this whole Q&A thing, I'm sure every month they did.

Josh: An AMA.

Jacob: "Ask me anything with the higher mind!" So there was recently, recently meaning at that time, they had seen an article published by Soviet scientists that they had discovered hell 14 kilometers underneath the earth's surface. So they asked-

Josh: Stranger Things...

Jacob: They asked them about this. And the response was, "there is no hell under the earth. Hell is now here on the very surface of the earth."

Alex: Ohhhh!

Jacob: "it's such a mess."

Alex: Burnnnn.

Jacob: "And incoherent now. There's no hell greater than this. So they have not arrived at any hell, only scientific and technological conclusions, but not that biblical hell. There is no real hell." So like there are a couple of these instances where they're dropping like, like seriously deep stuff.

Josh: Just playing with them.

Jacob: Yeah. Like they asked them about science one time, like what should we do to improve our science or something like that? Or, and like, it's not so much the science as much as it is the human perception and understanding of how you can communicate and things like that.

Josh: "But I am limited. I can only communicate the first of each month. So... Are you there? Can you hear me? You there?"

Alex: Is that their way of warning us against all the meetings that we have at work?

Josh: Yeah. Can you put it in an email? Just put it in an email! We don't got to be here. Just zap that thing over here!

Jacob: Okay. Last, last fun quote. Again, they were asking who they were talking to at a different point in time. They got the response. "It is spoken in a collective name. You will now be governed by the United Galactic-"

Josh: ...Federation...

Jacob: No, some made up word. "Clarkforium". I should read what it says in Bulgarian. "There is no shield. There are no chiefs of staff."

Alex: No shield?

Jacob: I don't even know what that refers to.

Alex: Like Marvel??

Jacob: And then it says "there is a shield that includes all the leaders in the galaxy. And they make up the Clarkforium led by the higher mind. It also includes Sorrel and Roro and others, which do not concern you by name now. Aggregated impulse information is obtained, which synthesizes and provides a generalized opinion."

Josh: Okay. Okay. No, it's a democratic board of governing aliens, led by the higher mind. And homeboy is like, "I'm talking to you directly now because you're in tune".

Jacob: Okay. Now-

Alex: Strategic Homeland Intervention... Logistics Division, SHIELD!

Jacob: So at a different point-

Josh: There is no shield, oh, there is a shield!

Alex: Yeah.

Josh: Oh, snap.

Alex: They're the shield.

Jacob: At another point, they ask the higher minds. It's like, who else are you talking with? Are you talking with anyone else around the earth? The response-

Josh: "The American president."

Jacob: No. Here we go. "We communicate through the old Bulgarian language. It is an intergalactic language. Therefore, our contacts are limited to people who know this language."

Josh: All right Higher Mind...

Alex: Communicating with Humans 101: make them feel special!

Josh: Yeah. Oh, human intelligence, ego up. "You're the, we tried! But the rest of them are all idiots. You're the only one we can talk to!"

Alex: Bulgaria!

Jacob: So like that-

Josh: "I'm the Higher Mind, man. Like, I just can't!"

Jacob: That wasn't the first time where they spoke about kind of, hey, you know what? I'm going to use that American term, Bulgarian exceptionalism. I'll put it that way. And about how Bulgaria needs to return to its great strength. Things in that vein.

Alex: Vein is the right word. Yeah. Vein.

Jacob: I wish I had a different spelling of vein. I wish I had a better climax, but after two years of digging and not really finding anything real, by that point, all of like the top brass in the defense ministry had changed out. So you have the new people who are like, you spent how much money on this? And you have nothing of it for us? They shut it down.

Alex: But what about those materials that they'd never seen before?

Jacob: I don't know.

Josh: The obelisks! The language!

Jacob: They shut it down, but they also thought it'd be best to try to conserve it, which I guess the only, I'd say the only did it to a certain degree.

Alex: Yeah. Governments are not great at that.

Jacob: So like they took some precautions to secure some walls, you know, to prevent collapse. Um, and they sealed off some other kind of like doorways and entryways and stuff. But then after that, they dumped two trucks worth, like two concrete trucks worth of concrete to seal off with a big old plug, like the very entrance. And it's since then now grown over and it's covered up.

Alex: Dynamite, baby!

Jacob: People don't really even know for sure where the entrance, I mean, by nowadays, you know, LIDAR would easily find it, but it's-

Alex: No, not LIDAR, but ground penetrating radar.

Jacob: Yeah. Sorry. Thank you. Not LIDAR. Okay. So-

Josh: I hate you Bulgarian government!

Jacob: So I don't know if you want to give me your reactions or I've got verifiable actual results from this and then my own conclusions.

Josh: What? I'm just angry. I don't know what you want from me.

Alex: You need some rock and roll, right? Some Master of Puppets.

Jacob: Here we go. The things that we at least know are like verifiably true for the most part. I think I can say that safely. They did, they did spend two years digging a tunnel that went about 68 meters deep.

Alex: Whoa.

Jacob: So yeah, that's 230 feet or so, probably.

Alex: A tunnel, not a shaft. Vertical.

Jacob: This is where it gets kind of frustrating. As I read Kanyev's stuff, he talks about all these turns and these different things they had to get past. And it makes it sound like a very, more like a system of tunnels. But then when you read the journalist's report, it's a spiral down.

Josh: Down, but maybe the obstacles are when you're going horizontal.

Jacob: Maybe.

Josh: That's what it-

Jacob: Yeah, so it's a spiral down that reached up to 150 meters long. So 68 meters deep, 150 meters total in that spiral.

Josh: Who did that math? That's a weird thing to calculate.

Jacob: I forgot to mention this. The, the aliens only allowed seven specific people, one of which was Lagunova. So it was six men who spent two years. Oh, and then I guess, I mean, they did eventually bring in those pyrotechnicians.

Alex: Sure. Experts.

Jacob: So that's, and it's like that-

Josh: "They won't be military, but they will be experts. And once they're here, you got to keep using them and you got to keep blowing things up. "

Alex: Because we want you to get to the center of this place.

Josh: You're taking a little too long and we know your government isn't going to let you finish.

Jacob: I forgot to mention, at one point they came across a force field that they couldn't get past. I mean, the whole thing was just, it's so wild. Anyway, they actually took the journalist down with his photographer. So we know that tunnel was dug. It is gone. You can no longer find it. So we know it has been cemented in.

Alex: Go study that force field!

Jacob: Yep. We do know that dozens of pages of an unknown language were written and analyzed.

Alex: And lost.

Jacob: There are at least a couple of pictures online that you can see of this language.

Alex: Okay. Cool.

Jacob: And actually a really interesting thing-

Alex: I'm going to get an AI on that.

Josh: Yeah yeah yeah! If you're listening to me AI, get a-

Alex: Yeah, if you're a listener, AI-

Josh: Please let us know first!

Jacob: Heather and I- Heather and I took a Russian handwriting class. It was not to learn to write pretty, but to read Russian handwriting. And we- And our professor gave us a couple of documents from like, man, 15th, 14th century Russian monks handwriting.

Alex: Originals or copies?

Jacob: Copies.

Alex: Okay. Good.

Josh: *blowing noise* "Alright, it's a little dusty, but uh, here ya go!"

Jacob: They used shorthand. And they used a lot like dots and hash lines in very specific places to denote different things.

Josh: Mom would do that.

Alex: Interesting.

Josh: Her English shorthand class.

Jacob: Yeah. And so when I saw the image of this unknown language, it actually reminded me a lot of that. So-

Alex: well, if ancient Bulgarian is an intergalactic language.

Jacob: Let's see. All the government files are classified still or lost. And that includes a couple thousand journal pages that Kanyev wrote. All of his journals, all of Luginova's journals were confiscated as well.

Josh: That's verified?

Jacob: Yeah.

Josh: Okay.

Jacob: There were multiple suicides and or deaths of people who were involved. And $9 million US dollars were spent on the two years of this project with only seven people involved in the digging.

Alex: Valuated at $9 million American dollars in the 90s or today?

Jacob: I think at that time.

Alex: Oh my gosh!

Jacob: So it has an even higher value than now. So here's where I'm at. And I don't love this conclusion.

Josh: We'll fix it for you, go ahead. Totally solved mystery!

Jacob: I think it was a scam. First and foremost by Luginova, who was the psychic speaking as and for Roro and Sorrel and the Higher Mind, she was the one giving them every single message. Now, sure, there's Baba Vanga and some other psychics who corroborate, but who says she wasn't paying them?
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